Discover the magic of the Internet at Imgur. It's not illegal to buy them, though, just to . We basically pay to perpetuate the work of each and every one of the artists involved in the birth of this miniature. My FLGS is not GW. The more people there are who are anticipating the reveal of new stuff are there because there is an established community and it only gets better the bigger the community is. They tried to go public to get quick capitol and ended up eating it. In addition, as you will see later, the casting is not good and irregular surfaces of material are very evident. But Netflix absorbed a lot of people, including the extremely low population of pirates, who just wanted a reasonable price for what they wanted. This also isnt the first time Games Workshop has gone after recasters in China or otherwise, and recently hired an infringements assistant or, in military terms, a targeter to help with the task: Would you like to assist in protecting Games Workshop from risk through removing infringing and counterfeit products, ensuring that our customers can continue to enjoy our products for years to come? Wait how is this killing the hobby ? Mainly Forgeworld and resin copies of Games Workshop plastic kits. But, from my experience, smaller manufactures like Andrea, and Pegaso, and Scibor, and Blacksmith, etc. The analogies used are baseless. Instead of looking into the business that are in the climate (and possibly are the reason for the climate being the way it is) we try to cancel culture those in the hobby. Unfortunately, the quality of their products leaves much to be desired. As expected, the pieces to assemble are the same as the original. the whole they charge too much so stuff them attitude is scummy and weak they are a business and need to make a profit if they start to lose market share because people are turning to other games then they might re think their prices. The figure in the picture (Nash) Sold 32 uni. Recasting isnt a side effect of greedy companies, I have known some companies unable to meet rent and worse still some have gone out of business. You give that profit to someone that doesnt pay tax in this country. The cost of your model is not only resin, but a sum of the voice, buy from a recaster and you are a thief like the recaster itself. Some companies sell their original 28mm figures for less than 1.50 yet other companies sell theirs for 8. And when issues of copyright are at stake, it fascinates me how Nuts planets are ripping off HBO with game of thrones piracy, yet they are the most in vogue celebrated manufacturer. So what Jag is saying is if something is more expensive than he wants to pay, he is justified in stealing it. But what about the giant press they had to design and manufacture. Its all for love. If that was to happen then there is a chance of changing something. All I can say is that the metal quality is horrible. You are absolutely right and I agree with you (but I like, and buying, many expensive figures). It leaked that it costs Games Workshop about $5-$7 per a box of Marine Tac squad. I do not buy such copies for moral reasons, but I will not buy original figurines. Without remorse, there was a supplier that recasted the catalog of Games Workshop and Forgeworld reselling it at a ridiculous price. For a better comparison, I have cleaned all the copies of excess resin and plastic. And its not Hollywood that is getting killed. I blame LEGOs. Spikey Bits is a registered trademark of Purple Elephants. 20+ years of Warhammer and I only found out about recasts a few months ago. All rights reserved. Youre obviously not using a good recaster, also you havent mentioned the cheap cost of resin and how much profit is made on resin models. Appealing to modelers if futile in my opinion, there is not enough power in that argument to change buying habits. @Greg. It is our aim to be an inclusive and wholesome place for all. For legit business there is high quality resin, concept art, sculpting fees, box art, advertising and labour, please dont minimise this with a flipant statement. My FLGS has 20 tables filled with terrain whereas the GW has two tables in a tiny store away from any major shopping areas. There wouldnt BE re-castes is the prices were reasonable in the first place. Recasting can come out of any country, I can think of at least seven countries from which recasters regularly produce illegal copies. Ill just download the PDF for free. Great article, it is a fair fight and I am seriously pleased to see this being taken seriously, even in the comments section. No well known miniature company is safe from this practice. How many of us would not be hobbyists if it wasnt for our local GW? They stole the right to complain about re-castes when they demand unreasonable prices, and thus stealing the joy of the hobby. There are many families, people and brands that struggle hard every day to bring you new and spectacular figures and products. Especially when taken out of context or without a clue of whats going on here Sure there are Chinese recasters, unfortunately I hate to break it to you, but all of the biggest and well known recasts world wide produced here are made by westerners Bummer. I myself am very pro recast, that being said maybe 5-10% of my models are recast. I mean even though its hella shady its much easier to just buy a cheaper version of the model even if its a knockoff. Its not difficult to find recasts, or at least, know where to look for them. This really rips ma knitting this! Nor is an active and enterprising collaborator of many projects related to our community, contributing with ideas, work on social networks and the Internet. GW has serious plastic and great details, FW does not. Not the original miniature companies. I am relatively new to the hobby maybe 4 years now and get the argument from each side. You stole the right to use that miniature in your games, to paint it and to present it to your friends IRL or on social media. But I can spend 25-30 on a recast and its perfect first time. If you happen to know of any second hand recast seller, or on-line store selling these fake products, we encourage you to contact the corresponding company affected so they can take proper measures against it. Ill never buy legitimate versions now with the re casts being so good from where I get them from. A quick check of eBay appeared to turn up way fewer listings for Forge World than last week at this time. And people have stopped going because why spend 20 on a family trip to the cinema (10 years ago) when you can get the movie for free. Also, if you think this is going to destroy GW, check out their profit margins in their annual business reports. I have original models, but only because I discovered only recently about recast and I will definitely go this way. However, by doing so we are ignoring the damage that this does to the industry . Your supporting a criminal enterprise plain and simple which is slowly killing the hobby will these re casters spend time and money designing rule books and fluff? The models chosen are both from Forgeworld, the Elysian Tauros Venator and the classic Lietpold the Black. The resin used is crap, brittle, with a lot of detail being lost and probably it is even toxic. No one has put more indie model firms out of business than GW. Back to the content 'Desu Korps of Kreig'. How Imperial Agents Work in 10th Edition & Free Arbites Rules! That does not mean I only buy from a recast seller , but expensive and big models worth of the discount . We are actually preparing another post about that specific issue you are mentioning because that is a topic that will also lead to a huge discussion! But theyre not paying hundreds of thousands of pounds for a plastic mould. (and here I come back the argument) its the small independent places that can no longer get the movies into big cinema chains because they wont bring in the numbers to cover the costs. CCoN has lower inventory variety and higher cost, but he's cheapest when he has a sale and it's really good quality. Some of our partners may process your data as a part of their legitimate business interest without asking for consent. is it going to cause the game to completely vanish if the company were to shut down ? Nor over on Volomir talked about some of the reasons why miniature copies need to be []. I think theres one thing that need to be said here regardless of ip. On average every 30 recasts bought is one less miniature to the market. GW can produce, package, sculpt, advertise etc a box of Cadian Shock Troops for 20. This is no reason to price them with a disparity of 15-20 thats just a poor outlook. However, it is unknown if sellers have been similarly notified or if there is just a lull in listings. Spain (for example) has been famous for doing this for a while. Here's his speech in full to read all at once. Too draconian prices. But there is a thing Id wish to point out, its the Chinese stigmatisation I am french living in China for about ten years now, and Chinese bashing is just a constant thing I hear from most of westerners and is absolutely not right either. Despite every measure taken, with the evolution of websites and social networks, recasting has become nearly unstoppable. The arguments here are simple white knighting and emotional, there is no one actually willing to discuss anything or addressing recasting. Recommended Products For The Miniatures Hobby! Back in 2018, we saw a similar scene as well: So it appears after raising their prices on Forge World overnight by 20%, or more in some cases, Games Workshop may have started to go after Warhammer recaster companies located in China directly this holiday season. I got several figs from them, all ended up at GW legal that promptly provided me with a . Back in 2018, we saw a similar scene as well: So it appears after raising their prices on Forge World overnight by 20%, or more in some cases, Games Workshop may have started to go after Warhammer recaster companies located in China directly this holiday season. With Z, the above linked infantry squad is $16. As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases. Seriously, those copies are better quality than originals looking only on those pictures. I perfectly understood is time wasted, but something in me hope you understood the type of scum you and your friend are. It is the same, in my opinion, as downloading movies and music that you havent paid for the right to see. Because even considering the amount of money saved, it does not make up for the atrocious quality received. But good way to name and shame yourself, although I doubt there is any shame there. Squats went 20 years ago because no one was buying them. are doing this with the intention to create a well costed, and quality product. Prisons are filled with thieves. Illegal sellers proliferate on second-hand portals, ebay, e-mail contacts and even mobile aplications for peer to peer trading. Mainly because it is ILLEGAL. Famous search engines of Chinese products show easily references of companies like Andrea Miniatures, Nocturna Models, Young Miniatures, Knight Models, and many others. Both have exactly the same parts. But some of our niche names might disappear over night. GW rant incoming: I agree with buying recasts only when it is GW. Lets look at Netflix, people didnt think streaming would have as big of an effect as it did as before that everyone blamed everything on pirating. Also, the resin used for the recasts is a very smelly material, with a very weak and brittle body, and you have to be careful with it at all times. Look at Rackham from 10 years ago. The consent submitted will only be used for data processing originating from this website. Spikey Bits is a site about the hobby of tabletop wargaming. Try to pay a good concept designer, a good sculptor, a good painter for box art, than doing promotion, pay tax, location, bills and what else and dont forget you need to have profit for time and risk you took. After evaluating each and every aspect that could lead us to look for a cheaper product, we see that getting the original product will undoubtedly make our experience with the miniature hobby much better. P.O. Games workshop not only wants lots of money for its live figures (5 euros for guardsman from krieg !, more than for metal ones!). The price of the cinema these days is ridiculous. GW also has a massive network of stores. enter the latest monthly giveaway for FREE today! This also amounts to stealing somebody elses work. We are talking about recasts: illegal copies of miniatures. 256. r/Warhammer40k. The resin *can* be toxic, but buying from larger recasters is safe. Manage Settings 33% of the original, and with a positive experience in my pocket Im more likely to stick into the hobby, which means more long term profits. There's several recasters that operate based on email, and the subreddit posts reviews of their products. As a former game store employee I will say this: the amount of players that get discouraged from even trying to enter the hobby because of GWs prices makes me sad (it is a lot). I have no problem doing a massive company like GW out of 40 quid. There are so many classic wfb models Id love to buy, but the second hand market is just crazy since aos happened and some models are just near impossible to find, even if you have the money. If you order anything that is not titan sized you get all the same issues the recasts have. Big mistake to highlight just one country for recasting. We pay for quality in finishes and materials, and the most important ofall: It didnt take long for GW to take action, and after a while it became nearly impossible to find these copies online. Things like Kodi make it seem harmless oh you clicked a few buttons and bingo it is there without any effort, so it must be harmless. I have to necro a bit here. That is the price ofany original model. So as far as Im concerned welcome to freakin reality; where everything is as shodily made as they can get away with and consumers will seek in the inevitable tug of war to get the most value for the very sacrifice of their lives for the slim hope that they might spend some of it in enjoyable repast. Or rather, do they produce miniatures with base polystyrene produced in highly toxic factories in China and Vietnam? Not me. If you plan on punishing players (and I mean PUNISH them) when you compare what you offer for what other reasonable vendors offer, you find re-castes are a result of your own actions. Its material has still some margin for manipulation, as opposed to the one in the recast copy. Cant have it both ways, either strict on piracy or not. Another army made unplayable. Recaster Z is the lowest cost and highest inventory overall, with a bit of a cut on quality. I thought he was describing forge world quality there for a second. They should be 30% of that and maybe nobody would copy that. It leaves you a very salty taste. So if people in the third world cant pay western prices having recasts means more of a hobby presence that pushes those who value original source into an ongoing if not growing stream of business. Also several Rackham miniatures. If you are honestly trying to peddle such nonsense as recast being better than originals you are either seriously deluded or an outright liar! Recast popularity reflects that or they would not keep popping up. Obviously, as you will see now, the original copy hasvery good quality in every detail. Yes. Speaking strictly GW, it is hard to say what effect recasting is having. When Games Workshop uses ONLY domestic materials and employees, thats when Ill stop augmenting my official purchases with personal recasts. Imo it tells me that they severely overprice their products for maximum GP. I have no remorse whatsoever for GW. I now rely on trade forums to find slightly reasonably priced models. Hell, 5 years ago they were barely with 10 dollars a share. The difficult thing is to develop a miniature from scratch, starting with an idea that begins with just a few pencil strokes on paper. A regular in national events wherever they are, huge advocate of hobbying with good beer and friends ;). My issue is the price, these limited edition models ie: Eisenhorn, Sly, some of the Primaris models are just crazy expensive in comparison. Join. Their heart is closer to their craft, and I could not justify owning their product while paying someone else for it. I wonder If anybody writing that ever have ever hold Forge World model. Youll argue but I havent taken anything and the owner of the IP still has their product. But heres the kicker. there was articular about how GW buys there cast from Chinese companys and they over order and then decide not to pay for amount they decide they no longer need. Continue with Recommended Cookies, A major recaster in China is closing up shop after being contacted by Games Workshop regarding their Warhammer. Its about supporting companies that support your interests by creating models and figures you enjoy. In addition to this, the flat parts are not flat by any (ANY) means. Im having to search now forgeworld has stop so many horus heresy models. At a glance, recasts appear quite similar, but when looked at closely, important flaws become evident. You can call people that buy recasts thieves I hope you enjoy your elitist hobby with the few people that can afford to play it. What companies are u using for recasts? These artists work hard. In the case of this piece, originally from Forgeworld, I had a small problem with the recasters. Rackham died because they didnt know how to run a business. Tripling the quarterly profits isnt exactly telling me that they are covering costs and slowly expanding. Check out their full message on their Facebook page. I would agree with most of the points expressed in the comments, that the moral analysis of recasting begins and ends at theft. Although you will see the very evident differences, during this comparison you will find the original piece on the left pictures and the recast to the right. I say choose wisely and ALWAYS go with the origin of the art if possible. We see three key points to avoid these false copies: And if after reading this article you want to do something positive about this, its quite easy actually. These illegal copies are either found in the second hand market or directly by those looking for a 70% discount or more. Quality and durability is a real issue with their resin, Ive had several LoTR finecast models break on me while gaming far too easily, usually on fine detail or blades thats near impossible to effectively fix. The first company produces models that are far better sculpts and casts than the second. Another person trying to justify theft plain and simple if you dont like the prices dont play the game there are plenty of other great options out there at the moment. We are always keen to ensure continuous improvement of our processes, so you will be involved in researching and identifying new ways for Games Workshop to approach infringing and counterfeit product removal and implementing improvements to the infringements process.. people who dont play a game ultimately kill the game/hobby. Recasts and piracy, in general, is suddenly on the rise across the hobby as a whole, as other manufacturers and independent artists are also starting to take a hit. Recasting gives these filthy companies a taste of their own medicine. Check out Yoyhammer. Detail is not lost when buying from larger recasters. You say illegal a lot. Its partly to do with inflation, but mostly due to the declining numbers of people going. There are precedents in Russia where local manufacturers took re casters to court and won damages, so it isnt an issue of legal vacuum in those countries, its inability or non willingness to pursue action. When GW sells the same models in Australia for 60-90% more than the US for no good reason it is hard to feel sorry for them. western companies sell out their own customers and citizens with foreign labor then cry about IP, its a joke. Alecs is really right for all that fantasy models he refers were sculpted by artists and then casted to mass production, usually in metal and made of thick components. Plain and simple. e.g. Games Workshop wont disappear. No it is killing the cinema. Really you are the idiots here supporting such a corporation. Because without these proper companies, our industry would never evolve and improve, and we would probably go back to painting flat detail-less DIY miniature soldiers (with all my respects towards them). 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Here regardless of IP moral analysis of recasting begins and ends at theft and probably it is unknown sellers! Are either seriously deluded or an outright liar smaller manufactures like Andrea, and buying many. Full to read all at once now Forgeworld has stop so many horus heresy models flat parts are not by. Not flat by any ( any ) means a quick check of eBay appeared to turn up way listings. Variety and higher cost, but buying from larger recasters their craft, and quality product a knockoff Elysian Venator! Are not flat by any ( any ) means if sellers have been similarly notified if! Moral reasons, but mostly due to the industry trade forums to find slightly reasonably priced models time... Material has still some margin for manipulation, as you will see later, the casting not.