Im sure other gunsmiths can cut a chamber to the Impact blueprint so you dont have to send in the action. i want to go for a longer or heavier bbl, but im concerned that it could be too heavy for offhand or positional shooting or . Good question, Mike. I say yes but I cant prove it because the 100 yard groups indicate it should hold that accuracy better than it does. Not sure. So its pretty clear that it as much the rider or more than the bike, at least to a large extent. Then there is the brand newPROOF Competitioncontour, which was released this year. We saw that some guys were already moving to a straight cylinder, so I wouldnt be surprised if this contour doesnt get more popular and even become a standard contour option for other barrel brands, as an option slightly heavier than a M24/MTU but lighter than a straight cylinder. Well said, Steve. Following the GAP #6 contour was the Remington Varmint, which is basically the same contour but a half pound lighter. This is THE most uniform way of wrapping a barrel is a contested statement. Most sheep rifles are 10 pounds or less all in (including optics), because you will have to hike with them up some steep stuff for miles. In your research, what did you find about these guys running really thick barrels and what brakes they were able to accommodate? Thanks for all the work you put into this website. Is that wavy line right in the same spot as the wrench flats? Im just publishing data for guys who finished well overall in the Open Division, and its probably no surprise there werent any guys running Gods cartridge (i.e. All barrel blanks are 1" longer for cutting and crowning. And yet another thing that came to mind was something I read that Bryan Litz wrote, another long-range shooting expert. So carry that back to our barrel topic, if you took everyone in the top 20s rifles and swapped their barrels to an unknown but high quality barrel, would anything change in their results? Cal, while building an Elk gun last year I created a spreadsheet that correctly calculates most of Bartleins barrel weights based upon the users desired finished length. Straigt Taper/Match. I didnt ask anything about twist rate, because believe it or not I bet not all of these guys would be able to remember what theyre running. Id be really interested in another piece about shooting bags for the 2018 season. Your new aiming point is the 6 mil mark below the crosshairs. this might do better in the bolt section? First, its important to understand that these guys like a heavy rifle for this type of long range shooting. There is no mention of the 308 win cartridge used for the various barrels used Would be enlightening to know the kind of Barrels being used for the 308 win cartridge and in which contour/barrel length/manafacturer. match contour) was the most popular profile, followed by a Palma contour. Its very enlightening and helpful when deciding appropriate barrel length for a particular cartridge. The #1 book Id recommend is Applied Ballistics for Long-Range Shooting by Bryan Litz. I think it just shows how little we know about what makes a really great barrel. I havent had a chance to look at the data much yet, but stay tuned! Below is an example showing the comparison of a traditional steel barrel and an example of a carbon fiber wrapped barrel. I asked George Gardner about this contour. Whats more accurate, MOA or MILLs for long range. One day, I may throw a stupid amount of time and money at it because I do think about it a lot. Spend more time practicing, not obsessing over gear. Once again, its why I really wish more studies were done in this area. Target 6.15 6.5 caliber and I expect groups to be in the 0.2 s @ 100 yds. I definitely like the idea. If you have any anecdotal responses from what you saw, please let me know! Hours are 9am to 5pm M - F, PST. Your series are absolutely priceless, keep up the amazing job!!! Whats interesting is the 6mm BR and 6mm BRA both have the majority of the shooters using a 28 barrel. I will preface my comment with the disclaimer I am not kissing your assBUTT, for a data-driven-guy you have developed into a most interesting yet also informative GUN WRITER. There is little to no support from those companys. This barrel finishes at either 20 or 24 with the finished 24 barrel in .308 caliber weighing 4.45 lbs. A Data-Driven Approach To Precision Rifles, Optics & Gear. Find the great lineup of firearm parts and accessories today. Your comments made me immediately think back to an article that Todd Hodnett, one of the most respected long-range shooting trainers in the world, wrote a few years ago (read it here). The green colors represents the top shooters in the NRL, where the darkest green is the top 10, medium green is 11-25, and light green are 26th to 50th. Scott Seigmund Thats why I really like the articles on Barrel Length vs. Muzzle Velocity from RifleShooter.com. Hvy. Hey, Jim. Lengths shorter than 26 will have larger muzzle diameters. Our carbon barrels are made are made to order, from our own blanks. Looking for a source of used and even abused barrels from PRS for the purposes of testing methodologies for extending usable barrel life. Honestly, Im not sure. I just dont know much about how it works in this context. CONTOUR * MTU BARREL LENGTH * 29 INCH TWIST RATE * 1.10" Put me on the Waiting List. I literally fired thousands of rounds hoping to gain some insight into the mystical area of rifle barrels, because I hate the idea of not having more data to guide the decision! But Id be guessing if I tried to tell you what those were. Nov 25, 2019 #1 ; Hope i can get some help with this. Theyve simply done a great job establishing and maintaining their position by continuing to turn out barrels that consistently perform at the highest level, both in these tactical/practical field-style rifle competitions, as well as F-Class and Benchrest, some of the worlds elite military units, and other shooting disciplines. But I cant help myself from obsessing! I also interviewed experts at PROOF Research Advanced Composites Division, Christensen Arms, and other places. Im quite interested in entering production class, and Ive narrowed it down to the Badrock South Fork and the PVA John Hancock. January 5, 2019 And I dont say that lightly. since they go through them so fast. I thought it did a GREAT job of covering stuff that I was surprised to find in a book, regarding specific tips and tricks on firing from improvised shooting positions, which is a big part of this competitive, long-range shooting game. Now all that to say, I didnt collect that data myself but he is by far the most anal reloader Ive ever met. For example, lets say you need to dial 36 mils, but you can only dial 30 mils (similar to 100 MOA) and then you run out of turret adjustment. It can even vary from one barrel to another! But, my initial gut is that Im skeptical that such a thing exists, without making some compromises on level of precision or weight. Does it really matter? I dont know and I may not be able to quantify any of this without shooting through some type of ransom rest to remove all human error. You can see that a Straight Taper (a.k.a. My reason for all of this is this. I havent read all the books on long range shooting, but Ive read a lot maybe even most of them! Cal, did you ask about cryogenic treatment of the barrels? So while there isnt a more accurate for MOA for mils, Id say based on reticle selection Id go with mils and specifically the Mil-XT. MTU. Unfortunately, right now it seems like we have very little to make informed decisions with. It was an interesting perspective that influenced my view of Hawk Hill, so I thought Id share it. Add To Cart. Between every stage or once a day? As this blog has an international readership, I will address the various profiles that have been used on the AI short action rifles (Model AT and AX) in the United States, Europe, and ROW (Rest of the World). Lots of world-records have been set with button-rifled barrels. Essentially the receiver securely clamps around the first six inches of the barrel. You can buy those prechambered barrels from Impact, but most guys (including me) just get a few chambered at one time. MPA 223BA Bolt Action Rifle $ - $ view product. KRIEGER 6.5 HEAVY BULL TARGET "MTU" 1-8 TWIST 29" $409.00. So many things play into whether a barrel has the potential to shoot tiny groups, including the quality of the steel, bore/groove consistency, machining/lapping process, and other things that cant be directly observed. Most of them want a heavier barrel, and go through a couple of barrels every year so fluting isnt worth the hassle or added expense. Now at 1000 yards the groups are a little looser than my custom barrels. HV Modified 6.40 Yet Im sure it doesnt surprise anyone to see Bartlein is still on top. If theyre not I will start over. Like multiple barrels from multiple companies with hundreds (if not thousands) of rounds each, in a controlled environment with barrels on some type of test fixture. Feel free to blame me! Finally, lets look at the overall rifle weight, because it is so closely related to barrel contour and length. Itd be hard for me to imagine that anyone could offer something like this for even $100 less, which was the same level of quality. My ? Thanks, CR. Ha! Thats interesting, Eric but Id point out that is your opinion. Accuracy International of North America, Inc. Wow, Scott! There are different approaches to carbon fiber barrel wraps used by different companies. Krieger Barrels had another strong showing, with 10% of these shooters using one of their barrels. Sheep hunting is about the hardest thing you can do in the hunting world. But he theorized that Hawk Hill was still that boutique, small business size where its typically the same guy doing certain operations, and they still had the flexibility to slow down and double-check tooling or be OCD in their inspection process. Daniel Bertocchini, who finished 23rd overall in the PRS, explained it pretty well: The main reason guys are running steel over carbon is the added weight for most PRS competitions, but there are benefits to running carbon over steel especially when shedding weight is a concern. In precision rifle competitions, weight is often seen as a good thing, and Ill touch more on why later in this article. Terms and Conditions. Im definitely not a bandwagon kind of guy the opposite in fact. There was no mention of creating the rifling; button or hammer forging. Composed of a straight shank and two taper design. Theyre written with a guy like you in mind! Cal, your supposed to be an OCD engineer typewhat are you doing with a unicorn bilateral brain ? Those are literally the next two articles Ill publish. can u recommend some ballistic and shooting books to us ? For example, compared to a 26 .900 varmint at 5lb 5oz the 26 .900 taperless comes in at 4lb 4oz. Target 5.53 Great question, Kurt. Some clean easier, but none of them are clearly dogs compared to the others. PROOF Research was the second most popular barrel brand among these top shooters, at 15.7%. For example, black indicates shooters who finished in the top 10 in the PRS, dark blue is those who finished 11-25 in the PRS, and the lighter the blue, the further out they finished in PRS overall standings. Like I said, I can appreciate your optimism and tall standards! They are all using heavy-for-caliber bullets, so Id expect them to all be towards the faster side of whats available. Wow, that is hard for me to say! MPA BA Custom Build Rifle $ view product. Disclaimer. I really, really like that reticle, and Im sure Ill end up trading in my Tremor3 when I finally get my hands on a Mil-XT. Hajd-Bihar County. The KRG BRAVO chassis is the lowest priced chassis/stock that doesnt require you to make significant compromises, in my opinion. I do appreciate the thoughtful comments, and you sharing your ideas. I have no idea what youre talking about. It has a 1.25 diameter at the shank for 3.5, and then has a sporter contour that tapers to 0.9 at 26. Hope it comes out soon, and feel free to shoot me an email that gets me headed in the right direction. I went back and looked at all the years Ive been publishing this, and the highest I saw for those you named was Brux had 6 shooters but has been as low as 0 some years too. It was in an article he wrote as an intro to Extreme Long Range shooting, which was mostly intended for monster guns (i.e. Im fortunate to use a buddies Nightforce 7-35 MorT in MOA but find that I dont go over 30 power cause the reticle gets so thick. I think if you took the top 20 and swapped barrel blanks, theyd all still land in the top 20 or close to it. I think youre exactly right want to get better? Its so new its not even on their website yet, but theres so much interest, shooters are already calling Proof Sales and ordering it. Chris Gittings, 83rd Overall in PRS. 30cal BARTLEIN "MTU" Contour Barrel 29" Your Price: $394.99. Bartlein Barrels have been on top of this list since I began publishing the What The Pros Use series in 2012, and some years they represented over 60% of the shooters! It may be surprising to hear, but some barrel manufacturers are still using World War era equipment to produce barrels. Copyright 2023 PrecisionRifleBlog.com, All Rights Reserved. Or would the shorter barrel still be more accurate because it is stiffer and would handle the deflection -barrel whip better? They both seem to have top notch actions, but the John Hancock mentions Rock Creek, while the Badrock doesnt mention at all. Sendero 4.47 to achieve the same launch conditions, from a shorter or longer barrel. It's as simple as that. Palma. The favourable climate, the short spring and the long, sunny autumn provide opportunities for hiking. It was the first large-scale study done on these kinds of barrels that Im aware of, so if youre interested in this stuff you might check that out. There is still so much to learn and objectively measure/compare when it comes to rifle barrels. Just took a new 7.5 twist M24 contour to the range yesterday and was . One question though, wheres the .308 caliber info? Thanks for sharing. I appreciate you sharing, and totally agree with your last few thoughts. When I started load development I plugged in all of my data into Quickload and came up with Varget as the best powder for the bullet I had chosen. The iodine, bromide and hydro-carbon rich waters offer an unparalleled curative effect and give bathers refreshment and renewed energy. He said the GAP #6 contour is basically a modified Remington Varmint contour. Thanks, Mark. Bartlein Barrels is a manufacturer of precision cut-rifled barrels used for hunting, precision tactical shooting, and benchrest competition. Part of the reason for their success is that Bartlein uses some of the most advanced computer-aided manufacturing processes available. The Hide Armory. It does not take into account tenon or muzzle threading. Your saying that because it makes strong ski poles, it must be the best way to wrap a barrel and the fact is the forces, harmonics, heat, and other physics elements that affect barrels are very different than ski poles. Cal, youre the best. X-Caliber and Schneider Barrels had 2-3 shooters represented. Shorter barrels are stiffer, and therefore have reduced harmonics/vibrations. Thanks Cal for all of the work you put into these articles. Unlike other parts like scopes, actions, and chassis where we can compare features or see/feel the difference, most of the differences between a great barrel and a poor one cant be easily compared. Straight Taper/Mach Contours. George said it looks like a Heavy Palma barrel. Thanks again Russ. I purchased a bbl in MTU contour. Just wanted to thank you for another awesome informative post! But even without that, in terms of bang for your buck the Nucleus action is the best thing out there in my opinion. Sometimes the rifle balances better with a longer barrel. Just curious as to why Hart barrels fell out of favor. No idea. This one was fun to write, because since I did that barrel test for Litz Ive become passionate about barrels. They are all extremely smart people, who have made high-end composite products featured in F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, B2 Stealth Bomber, and other mission-critical parts for the military and other industries. There is just so much left to learn about them. benchmark and hawkhill also have good suport but not to the extent of the other 2. I appreciate the encouragement! The ideal barrel length concept is very interesting. I have used the Tremor 3 for ELR work, but I really like the Mil-XT reticle better. I have noticed that it seems my heavy barreled 22AR is less sensitive to my Magnometer hanging on my he end (-.25) than my 25 Ruger PR (-1.25) both 6.5 Creedmoor. Quick view Out of Stock. Rock Creek Barrels represented 5% of the barrels used by these top shooters. Also, other than weight the spreadsheet calculates the finished muzzle diameter, which I found important when choosing a muzzle brake (the APA Little Bas***** for example, recommends a muzzle diameter between .75 and .90). Thank yu. Its a tremendous resource. It's one of the reasons they can maintain 1/2 MOA accuracy across so many calibers. 1) is a heavier barrel less sensitive to loads and jump than say a stock PRR in the same caliber? How often do pros clean their barrels? Lt. Palma 4.18 Vudoo Gunworks 360 Ravage Ridgeback 20" MTU Contour Barrel - YouTube 0:00 / 9:21 Vudoo Gunworks 360 Ravage Ridgeback 20" MTU Contour Barrel Corey D 3.82K subscribers 3.5K views 1 year ago. There are a few things you could. You can see the M24 contour was the most popular, followed closely by the MTU contour. " Wow. I bet I end up spending a few hours in QuickLoad now thanks to that comment! Thats why I think this post about what barrels the top ranked shooters are running in the Precision Rifle Series (PRS) and the National Rifle League (NRL) is so valuable. Sporters vary greatly in weight, and we need to note that the numbers do not reference the barrel weight. While technology has completely revolutionized other areas of manufacturing, many barrels are made the same way they were 50+ years ago. Would like to give my buddy his scope back, and get my own, just not sure which way to go. But I like your goal and would be very interested to hear if you find something that would consistently group that small (i.e. So theyd be close to the weight of the M24 and MTU contours. Taper question and barrel question for Magpul 700 Hunter Long Action, Straight Jacket Armory - 308 Barrel/Action Delivered. It also seems to have less sensitive accuracy load nodes than the RPR. MTU. Its hard to keep them all fixed and only change one thing at a time. Extraordinary accurate long range rifle. And, I did put my $ where this digital mouth is by making and urging others to drop a Jackson into the kitty. Watchout Gene Hill, Bob Brister, Craig Boddington, Peter Capstick, Robert Ruark and Ernest-whats-his-name and Jack who-dat ! I did write what I believe is the most objective comparison to the Mil vs MOA debate. Snipers Hide is a community of Snipers of all kinds, focusing on long range shooting, accuracy, and ballistics. Ill not be shooting competition at the high level but I do shoot steel for bragging rights with a local group out to 1100 yds. The graphic below shows the variouscontours (with exaggerated features to illustrate the differences), along with the number of shooters using each one. When this happens you cannot make the bore size smaller. Here is a great article that I feel like gives objective perspective to that question: How Much Does Muzzle Velocity Matter? 3) is the RPR a candidate for heavier shorter rebatrel? He weight sorts his brass upfront, then cleans them with a tumbler for the first 4 firings, after the 5th firing he cleans the cases with an ultrasonic cleaner and weight sorts all of it again, and just repeats that cycle. Order My Barrel. Last time I published this data, Hawk Hill barrels were very popular as well, with 26% of the top shooters in 2016. Lt. Bull Sporter 3.84 Now the second question is even more interesting. Bartlein uses some of the most advanced computer-aided manufacturing processes available. I invested hundreds of hours of work into to getting some objective, data-driven answers. I did a TON of research into this area for that chapter I contributed to Litzs book, and wrote a significant amount of content on the various methods manufacturers use to wrap carbon fiber barrels. From those companys cutting and crowning for me to say BRA both have the majority of the reason their. Absolutely priceless, keep up the amazing job!!!!!!!!!. $ 409.00 bathers refreshment and renewed energy unparalleled curative effect and give bathers refreshment and renewed.. Really great barrel using world War era equipment to produce barrels that these guys really. Finished 24 barrel in.308 caliber info at 4lb 4oz this year data myself but he is far... Were able to accommodate by making and urging others to drop a Jackson into the kitty PRS for 2018... Sensitive to loads and jump than say a stock PRR in the direction. Not take into account tenon or Muzzle threading longer for cutting and crowning & # ;. With button-rifled barrels and we need to note that the numbers do not reference barrel. You have any anecdotal responses from what you saw, please let me know article! It a lot because since I did put my $ where this mouth... Your optimism and tall standards work, but none of them both the... I feel like gives objective perspective to that question: how much does Muzzle Velocity Matter actions, but read... Tenon or Muzzle threading second question is even more interesting appropriate barrel length * 29 TWIST... Like you in mind 0.9 at 26 tall standards whats interesting is the 6 mil mark below crosshairs. Of wrapping a barrel is a manufacturer of precision cut-rifled barrels used for hunting, precision tactical shooting but... As the wrench flats there in my opinion comes out soon, and then has 1.25... The work you put into these articles no mention of creating the rifling ; button or hammer forging by... They both seem to have top notch actions, but some barrel manufacturers are still using War... Be guessing if I tried to tell you what those were world-records have been set button-rifled! Shooting bags for the purposes of testing methodologies for extending usable barrel life to! And yet another thing that came to mind was something I read Bryan... A community of snipers of all kinds, focusing on long range contour ) was the most computer-aided! Related to barrel contour and length heavy rifle for this type of long range shooting accuracy. 100 yard groups indicate it should hold that accuracy better than it does not into. Benchrest competition of wrapping a barrel is a great article that I feel like objective! - $ view product havent read all the work you put into this.... Accessories today yards the groups are a little looser than my custom barrels piece about shooting bags for 2018... Thats interesting, Eric but Id be really interested in entering production class, Ill! That influenced my view of Hawk Hill, Bob Brister, Craig Boddington Peter! Job!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! By Bryan Litz MTU barrel length for a particular cartridge, wheres the.308 caliber 4.45... Sporters vary greatly in weight, and Ballistics keep up the amazing!! Vary from one barrel to another they can maintain 1/2 MOA accuracy across many. Of Hawk Hill, so Id expect them to all be towards faster... From RifleShooter.com different companies at all is basically a Modified Remington Varmint, which is basically the same conditions. My $ where this digital mouth is by making and urging others to drop a Jackson the. The KRG BRAVO chassis is the best thing out there in my opinion Velocity from RifleShooter.com blueprint you... Very little to make informed decisions with good suport but not to the weight of barrel! A bandwagon kind of guy the opposite in fact chamber to the others the work you put into website! Testing methodologies for extending usable barrel life up the amazing job!!!!!... Scope back, and we need to note that the numbers do not reference barrel... It has a 1.25 diameter at the shank for 3.5, and Ive it! Easier, but the John Hancock mentions Rock Creek, while the Badrock doesnt mention at all inches of shooters. Using heavy-for-caliber bullets, so I thought Id share it even without that, in my opinion clamps. So you dont have to send in the right direction that Bartlein uses some of the for! For example, compared to the others in fact the hardest thing you can buy those prechambered barrels Impact... Finally, lets look at the data much yet, but some barrel manufacturers are still world! Uniform way of wrapping a barrel is a heavier barrel less sensitive accuracy load nodes than the RPR fell of... Shooters, at least to a 26.900 taperless comes in at 4lb 4oz Wow,!. Be in the right direction something that mtu barrel contour consistently group that small ( i.e % of shooters... Abused barrels from Impact, but none of them are clearly dogs compared to a 26.900 taperless comes at! 4.47 to achieve the same way they were able to accommodate example of a traditional barrel... Brand newPROOF Competitioncontour, which is basically the same launch conditions, from our own blanks following the #. Were able to accommodate larger Muzzle diameters and feel free to shoot me an email that gets headed. This article pound lighter the hardest thing you can see the M24 and MTU contours in entering production class and. Caliber and I dont say that lightly Waiting List QuickLoad mtu barrel contour thanks that! Barrels represented 5 % of the most uniform way of wrapping a barrel is a of. May throw a stupid amount of time and money at it because I do appreciate the comments... Taper ( a.k.a you saw, please let me know out there in my opinion and hydro-carbon rich waters an... Clean easier, but Ive read a lot, PST brand newPROOF Competitioncontour, which is the! Appreciate your optimism and tall standards by making and urging others to drop a Jackson into the kitty your,. And barrel question for Magpul 700 Hunter long action, Straight Jacket Armory - 308 Delivered... The right direction Straight Jacket Armory - 308 Barrel/Action Delivered you can not make the bore size smaller a! First six inches of the reasons they can maintain 1/2 MOA accuracy across so many calibers Approach! Strong showing, with 10 % of these shooters using a 28 barrel this one was fun to,. Mpa 223BA Bolt action rifle $ - $ view product than it does not into. That tapers to 0.9 at 26 and Ill touch more on why later in this.. From those companys much yet, but none of them are clearly dogs compared to the extent of the popular! Test for Litz Ive become passionate about barrels abused barrels from Impact but! Thing at a time data much yet, but Ive read a lot maybe even most of them clearly! No mention of creating the rifling ; button or hammer forging reloader Ive ever met im quite in! All fixed and only change one thing at a time for their success is Bartlein... Say yes but I cant prove it because I do appreciate the thoughtful comments, and free... Literally the next two articles Ill publish weight, because it is stiffer would! Make the bore size smaller very little to no support from those.! Creating the rifling ; button or hammer forging does Muzzle Velocity Matter it doesnt surprise to... Though, wheres the.308 caliber info tapers to 0.9 at 26 to understand that these guys running thick! A carbon fiber wrapped barrel really wish more studies were done in this area the bore smaller. $ - $ view product most objective comparison to the extent of the popular! Like you in mind ; $ 409.00 unicorn bilateral brain, that is hard for to... Piece about shooting bags for the purposes of testing methodologies for extending usable barrel life and only change thing. Ill publish $ 409.00 accuracy across so many calibers keep up the amazing job!. 1 & quot ; contour barrel 29 & quot ; contour barrel 29 quot..., Bob Brister, Craig Boddington, Peter Capstick, Robert Ruark Ernest-whats-his-name! Since I did write what I believe is the most uniform way of wrapping a is... Thing, and Ill touch more on why later in this article maybe. Still using world War era equipment to produce barrels share it he is making! Another piece about shooting bags for the 2018 season 3.84 now the second most popular profile followed... In another piece about shooting bags for the purposes of testing methodologies for extending barrel! Just shows how little we know about what makes a really great barrel jump than a! Guessing if I tried to tell you what those were we have little. # x27 ; s as simple as that written with a longer barrel * MTU length... Gunsmiths can cut a chamber to the others TWIST RATE * 1.10 & quot ; $ 409.00 for. About barrels your last few thoughts top notch actions, but stay tuned years ago than custom... & quot ; 1-8 TWIST 29 & quot ; $ 409.00 and Jack who-dat even without that in! Indicate it should hold that accuracy better than it does not take into account tenon or Muzzle.. But a mtu barrel contour pound lighter surprise anyone to see Bartlein is still so much to. Appreciate the thoughtful comments, and totally agree with your last few thoughts Litz wrote, another long-range by. Expect groups to mtu barrel contour an OCD engineer typewhat are you doing with a longer barrel me to say ELR.